- In Part Three, Joe Potter relates the story of his failed marriage with Beth and the turn of events that led to him murdering Beth's father and being indirectly responsible for the death of her daughter. Is Joe a "good man who did bad things" (as Matt says) or does his bad choices make him a bad man? [50 words]
- In Part Four, both Matt and Joe receives sentences. Are their sentences fair? Is the punishment meted out on Joe's cookie "identity extension" fair? [50 words]
- If our selves are not fully integrated in time (since we do change all the time), then how can we punish the segment of our selves that is responsible for moral or immoral behavior? Note how the cookie identity extensions seem to suffer most in this story. [50 words]
Thursday, April 9, 2015
Homework post for 4/15 -- B
In the episode, "White Christmas," from the British TV show Black Mirror* that we watched in class:
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1 I honestly believe that Joe is a “good man who did bad things” because this is not a world that somebody can be expected to not be caught off guard. In no real world situation are people “blocked”, and I honestly feel like he either already knew that she was his child (because I am sure in this future world they do have DNA tests and you cannot just steal another person’s child, meaning that at his restraining order hearing he would have been informed that the child was not his), or that legal action would take place. This entire situation is not plausible, but ignoring that, I do believe any sane person would react closely, maybe not with the murder, but similarly. No person can be expected to be left, have no clue about his unborn child, be lied to, and then watch this child grow up (as his own), only to find out after death you were cheated on. I believe any person would have a similar mental breakdown, and he is a good man, just in a severely unfortunate (implausible) situation.
ReplyDelete2 No, I do not believe either sentence is fair. Matt cannot possibly live his life like that, he will either be killed, homeless forever (who can possibly lease to a red blob), not be able to ever encounter anybody, he basically has to live in the wilderness away from people forever. This is a death sentence, because he cannot live like that at all. As for Joe’s character, no person in history has to endure millions of years of guilt. That is inhumane. The death sentence is much better on anybody, but these situations will not exist anyway. They are essentially robbing them of their mind, which the criminals who are executed still have control over, as the basic human right.
3 I do not understand this question. So the “cookies” have their own timeline since they are computer, but they are not responsible for the immoral or moral behavior, so it is not fair? I do not understand this question. Of course punishing a computer isn’t going to do anything to the human. It’s a computer. It can suffer in this scenario, sure, but the human responsible does not feel it at all and never will. It is stupid.
- Elizabeth Clemmons
1. I believe that Joes is "a good man who did bad things." Joes didn't stand a chance against the pressures and stress the world was placing upon his shoulders. Just like anyone else would have done, he finally cracked and with that, made very bad decisions which would effect his life forever. Joe really has no excuse for what he did, but I do not believe that makes him qualify as a bad man.
ReplyDelete2. Both Joe and Matt receive very, very harsh punishments within this part. Some of the punishments do a great job at reflecting the crime, but none of them put into play the type of men they both are. I believe that Matt has earned his punishment more than Joe has his. Matt will eventually be overtaken by the forever seclusion and will most likely go insane. Not sure if that's a fair punishment. Joe is a good man but is getting punished very differently than deserved.
3. I do not understand this question as well. Humans most live day by day and deal with the consequences of their morals or lack there of when it happens. A computer cannot be punished, other than with the seclusion and boredom that they punish the "cookie" with. How long will these punishments really last though?
In Part Three, Joe Potter relates the story of his failed marriage with Beth and the turn of events that led to him murdering Beth’s father and being indirectly responsible for the death of her daughter. I believe Joe is a good man that just got caught up in his emotions which lead him to murdering Beth’s father.I appeared that the murder was by accident too.
ReplyDeleteIn Part Four, both Matt and Joe receive sentences. I think both of them should have been sentenced but not as intensely as they did. Since the confession came from the cookie test would need to be done to confirm that the data had not been manipulated.
I do not fully understand the question but here is my best shot. I do not agree that the cookies should be punished and if you believe they are also being punished then you believe they have moral rights. therefore they should not be used as slaves.
Joseph Ledo-Massey
I believe he was a good man who did bad things. As imperfect men what would it take any of us to be pushed over the edge? Especially with a concept so branded into the mind and fueled by alcoholic rage. I don't think that he meant to hurt anyone, he was simply pushed to far.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that making anyone induce mental torture especially for such a long period of time is fair. Torture and punishment are two different things. Imprisonment is torture enough on the mind and body. To take it to the lengths of blocking your identity from all of mankind is absolutely ridiculous. The insanity from being alone would be enough for anyone to commit suicide.
We can't and we shouldn't torture anyone piece of the brain even the psychotic part. And to take this idea into actual reality is not only inhuman it is dumb. Humans may change and evolve, but basic human rights should remain the same. Even the self conscience if technology were to make it that far should not be tortured as depicted.
1. I think his choices make him bad. Everyone has a choice and he chose to let his emotion of anger get the best of him and take it out on Beth's father. Beth probably did not want to let Joe know that the kid wasn't his because of how it would destroy him, but it turns out that not talking to him destroyed him even more.
ReplyDelete2. I believe that Joe's sentence is fair but how they came to his confession is not fair, and that Matt's sentence was not fair. For Joe, they were able to manipulate his brain "cookie" into a confession by increasing the amount of time he had been in that house drastically, whereas his real body and mind wouldn't talk. Matt did the prosecutors a favor by getting Joe to commit to murder but told his true story about himself in the process, resulting in being "blocked" by everyone. I that is way too harsh for helping them out in the first place.
3. Humans are not drastically changed by time. Sure we change all the time but for the most part this isn't going to affect our thought process drastically unless we alter our state of mind such as drugs or alcohol. When the "cookie" mind goes through 6 months or more of isolation but in real life it takes only seconds for this 6 month period to run, the mind is going to be changed much more on the "cookie" than in real life.
1.) I think that he was originally a good man. He loved a woman so mindlessly that he would have followed her to the ends of the earth even though she "blocked" him. Nit to mention the fact that he was under the impression that she was carrying his child which worsened the attachment. Years went on and his craziness grew as he followed and stalked a child that was not even his. Eventually he snapped and once he killed his lover's father, every ounce of good in him vanished.
ReplyDelete2.) Matt earned his sentence more than Joe. Joe was tortured and that led him to do horrible and irrational things. Matt was just a sick and twisted person.
3.) I have a hard time believing that the cookie mind is that much different than the human mind because it is IDENTICAL. Maybe there is no soul attached, which makes the emotions irrelevant and robotic, but I am fully against torture as a punishment of any kind for anything.
Angela Beabout
1. I agree with Matt in that Joe is a good man, but made some awful decisions. For one, his obsession with Beth was very intense, but there was no doubt that he loved her. I think that if anyone is at fault, Beth and Joe's friend whom Beth was having an affair with are at fault. The situation could have been resolved through communication in my opinion, but once secrets are kept and released then problems occur.
ReplyDelete2. I believe that both sentences are fair for Matt and Joe. I believe Matt's sentence is definitely fair because he really has selfish motifs that needed to be addressed and by him being blocked out from the everyone, it may help him to do some soul searching.
3. I believe that we are all growing and progressing in our lives through experiencing and doing. If you are trapped in a bubble, or in this case a computer, you will not be able to experience, therefore you will not be able to grow as a person. The cookie identity extension people are suffering the most because there is no way for them to evolve into the person they are meant to be.
I think Joe is definitely a good man who did bad things because he certainly did love Beth. He loved her and she was having an affair with someone else. Once that trust is lost, it is hard to gain it back. The problems started once her affair was revealed.
ReplyDeleteI think the sentences are fair because Matt and Joe both deserve to pay for their actions. Although Joe is a good man, he still has to suffer the consequences. Matt did all the wrong things for sort of right reasons which still warrants paying the consequences.
I think over time we will grow as a person and learn right from wrong. Hopefully, as time goes on, the immoral parts of ourselves will be smaller than the parts that know right from wrong. The cookie extension is suffering because it only has one job and has no chance of experience the world which will allow it to know right from wrong.
Christopher Bijou
I think Joe is a good person with good morals but his impulses lead him to do bad things and that makes him seem like a bad person. It's not as if he acted without reason, he definitely had his reason but he just overreacted.
ReplyDeleteGood people do bad things all the time but it doesn't exempt them from punishment. The sentences seem appropriate and proportionate to there offenses. Although, their methods of punishment and confinement are a bit different from ours.
The rights and wrongs are known by the individual regardless of mood or situation. I think his actions were impulsive and he disregarded what was good out of his own inner anger. He should still be held entirely responsible because of his lack of control for his actions.
Daniel Dearing
1. I don’t think that Joe’s bad choices makes him a bad person, and that he is a “good man who did bad things.” Joe is someone who was unfairly led to his consequences. I think the difference between him and people like Matt, is that the harm Joe caused was unintentional. He never meant to hurt anyone.
ReplyDelete2. Both Matt and Joe committed horrible crimes, and should be punished accordingly. However, Matt is more deserving of his punishment because of the type of person he is. Joe’s situation is more misunderstood. The anger that led Joe to killing Beth’s father could’ve been prevented by honesty from his wife Beth.
3. The best that we can do is learn from our mistakes. Joe dealt with extreme guilt, and that is why the cookie suffered so much. The best thing to do is let go and move on instead of holding onto your regrets and past mistakes.
1. I think what Joe did in his story was a very bad thing that happened to the wrong person Joes intent was not to kill the father. He only did because he had never seen his child or what he thought was his child, and when he realized his wife cheated on him he was livid and wanted answers
ReplyDelete2. I think both of their sentences were unfair. Matts was because he only did what the people said and he was punished by being blocked from everyone. Joes was unfair because he regretted his decision and was still punished very harshly.
3. I also do not fully understand this question. I think it is wrong for punishing the “cookie” or the conscious. I agree with Joe by saying punishing them is proving they have rights, so it is wrong to use them as slaves.
-Stephen Stroop
1. I believe at heart Joe is a good man, but he makes choices to think otherwise. Joe lacked the ability to overcome his emotions and make smart choices. He knows right from wrong, so shame on him.
ReplyDelete2. They both equally deserved punishment. There punishment was pretty extreme, but if they would’ve done the right thing the first time, the punishment could have been avoided.
- Sidney Freeman
1) I believe Joe is a good man that got caught in a bad situation. I also believe that he reacted the way any normal human being would. The wife drove him to insanity by running off on him and leaving him with unanswered questions, that would drive any man crazy.
ReplyDelete2) I think that both of the sentences were accurate since they were both in the wrong. The difference is that Joe had good intentions and Matt did not. Joe was trying to help his flesh and blood or so he thought, and Matt had selfish motifs.
3) Humans live with regret and constant reminders of their wrong doings, computers do not have those problems therefore it is completely different. It is impossible to train a computer to have feelings and remorse.
-Natalie Diciaula
1. I do believe that Joe is a good man that did bad things. He loved his wife and was thrilled to hear that she was pregnant. If anyone in their marriage was a bad person it was Beth, because she cheated on Joe and got pregnant with the other man's child. She then blocked Joe from her life. This drove him mad. All he wanted was to see "his" kid. When Beth's father kept telling him to leave and that he had no child, Joe finally snapped. But he did feel incredibly guilty about it.
ReplyDelete2. I believe that Matt's punishment was fair, because he witnessed a murder and never went to anyone about it. I do not really think that Joe's punishment was fair because it came from his cookie instead of from the real him. It is his consciousness that confessed, but it never actually came from his mouth. It was in a virtually created world.
3. the cookie version of the person should not be punished. They did nothing wrong, it was their human that did. The cookie can be tortured but that does nothing to the human as they are separate entities.
I believe Joe was a good man that did bad things, he wanted nothing more than to be happy and have a family with his loved one, until he gets into an argument and she “Blocks” him for life and makes him go insane. I believe matts sentence was legit, he really was a messed up due and really two faced, and ruined people’s lives, on the other hand I believe joes sentencing was messed up because he was just caught in a horrible situation that he did not want to happen. Both the cookie mind and the real human mind are the same, we do change over time and we adaot different feelings as well that change us.
ReplyDelete-Hampton Schaffer